On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 17:27:53 -0500,
Revres [revres@verizon.net] wrote:
> “Can the Second Law of Thermodynamics Be Circumvented?”
>
> (See also our sister website reticsessays.com)
>
> The validity of the First and Second Laws of Thermodynamics
> seems to be beyond question. Under the first law, the total
> energy content of a closed system must remain constant.
WHAT IS A “CLOSED SYSTEM”.
HOW DO YOU KEEP AETHER OUT?
A “CLOSED SYSTEM” CAN ONLY
BE THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE!!
> Under the second law, the availability of that energy
> for useful purposes must always decrease or remain constant.
SOUNDS LIKE YOU’VE BEEN
HUFFING ENTROPHY AGAIN. DON’T
YOU KNOW THAT ROTS YOUR BRAIN?
> In effect, the First Law of Thermodynamics states that you
> can’t win and the Second Law states that, furthermore, you
> can’t break even.
Then how do stars
come into existence?
HOW DOES THAT WORK?
> The First Law of Thermodynamics is unquestionably true,
I think it’s probably true,
but NOTHING in unquestionable!
Even I can prove that!
What else can’t I question?
> energy can neither be created nor destroyed,
I think so.
> General Relativity not withstanding.
Fuck General Relativity,
and his bat man too!
> The Second Law of Thermodynamics stands on less firm
> ground because it is a law based upon statistics.
So it might actually
be under water now!
> As such, it is in the same category as an actuarial
> table. An insurance company can predict quite accurately
> how many people will die in a given year. They cannot
> predict who those people will be. Statistical laws are
> valid for large numbers of events; they become less
> significant as the number of events is reduced.
> As an example, if one patronizes a casino, he might
> initially win a large sum of money playing a slot machine,
> but if he continues to play he not only will give all his
> winnings back to the casino, he will sustain a significant loss.
> The question then arises as to whether it is possible to by-pass
> the Second Law of Thermodynamics though the use of nanomachines.
Now we know how bookies
would do physics.
> (A nanomachine is a mechanism whose significant dimensions
> are measured in nanometers, the size scale of atoms.)
>
> One who observes Brownian motion in a microscope might reasonably
> conclude that,in principle at least, a nanomachine could be built
> which would bypass the Second Law of Thermodynamics. When a liquid
> containing microscopic particles is observed, the particles are
> seen to be in continuous (Brownian) motion. That motion is caused
> by random thermal impacts between the molecules of the liquid and
> the particles. If the thermal motion of water molecules can produce
> a visibly observable motion in particles which are at least 10^15
> times as massive, it certainly not unreasonable to believe that
> suitable nanomachines could organize the effect to produce a useful
> mechanical output. The postulated nanomachines would then be able
> to export energy to the outside environment that it obtained by
> reducing the temperature of the liquid. The exported energy
> would be converted to heat and raise the temperature of the
> external environment as the output performed useful work.
????
THAT’S AN INTERESTING
HYPOTHETICAL CONJECTURE!
BUT HARDLY AN ARGUMENT!
JUST A WHAT-IF MAYBE!
> The resultant temperature difference between the environment and
> the liquid will then cause the energy which had done useful work
> to flow back into the liquid to return it to its original
> temperature and allows the process to continue indefinitely.
???? I lost track of
what was flowing where.
> James Clark Maxwell proposed a hypothetical perpetual motion machine,
> known as Maxwell’s Demon, which was not proven to be THEORETICALLY
> unworkable for 75 years. In that machine, Maxwell imagined that a
> demon controlled a microscopic gate between two gas filled chambers.
> Making use of the fact that, in a gas, the velocity of the molecules
> is random and that the temperature of the gas is determined by the
> mean velocity of those molecules, Maxwell proposed the concept that,
> if an appropriate demon existed, he could sense the speed of molecules
> approaching the gate and open the gate only when a fast molecule
> approached it from one side or when a slow molecule approached it
> from the other side. By operating the gate in this manner, the demon
> would sort the molecules so that one chamber contained fast molecules
> and the other chamber contained slow molecules. Since the temperature > of a gas is determined by the mean velocity of its molecules, such a
> process will maintain a temperature difference between the chambers
> that can be exploited to produce useful work in a direct violation
> of the Second Law of Thermodynamics. It took 75 years before a
> rigorous proof was found which was able to show that the
> energy required for Maxwell’s Demon to identify the fast and slow
> molecules and allow the gate to operate was at least as great as the
> energy that could be released and Maxwell’s Demon was shown to be an
> unworkable concept.
And yet those demons
have been working for
well over a century!
> There is a modification to the concept of Maxwell’s Demon for which
> there is, at least as yet, no valid theoretical objection. Suppose
> that the two chambers of the Maxwell’s Demon example no longer rely
> on a demon but are separated by a diffusion membrane having a
> permeability from side A to side B which is higher than the
> permeability from side B to side A.
> The energy required to allow the membrane to make the decisions
> it needs to make in order for it to function in this manner is
> available in the kinetic energy of the gas molecules passing
> through it. In diffusing through the membrane, molecules can
> provide the energy needed by being slowed from their average
> room temperature velocity of about 1300 feet per second to a
> much lower exit velocity. The lower velocity of the gas
> leaving the membrane means that side B is colder than the ambient
> temperature. The loss of kinetic energy by the molecules as they
> pass though membrane provides the energy required to operate the
> differential diffusion mechanism in the membrane pores, and the
> membrane becomes warmer than the ambient temperature. If the
> surface areas are sufficiently large, the temperature of the gas
> on both sides of the membrane and of the membrane itself must
> remain close to the temperature of the environment.
> As a result, the pressure in chamber B will be higher than the
> pressure in chamber A. That difference in pressure can be used
> to operate a turbine and provide useful output power. As the gas
> flowing through the turbine produces output power, the chambers
> are cooled below the ambient temperature and energy flows from
> the environment to the chambers to replace the energy delivered
> by the turbine. The arrangement would extract useful energy
> from its environment in direct contradiction to the Second
> Law of Thermodynamics. See http://einsteinhoax.com/cf153.gif.
IT WOULD?
SHOULD I JUST
TAKE YOUR WORD
FOR IT, OR IS
THERE SOME KIND
OF DEMONSTRATION?
> Conceptually, the membrane might be constructed with pores
> that were covered by pring-loaded trapdoors, as shown in
> http://einsteinhoax.com/cf154.gif. In this illustration,
> a molecule represented by a ball approaches the right side
> of the membrane at a velocity, which was appropriate to its
> temperature, knock the trapdoor open, and pass through it.
THE ENGINEERING ON THAT DOOR
IS GOING TO BE A REAL BUMMER!
REMEMBER, ONE MOLECULE OF GAS
HAS TO KNOCK IT OPEN. I DON’T
THINK THAT’S GONNA HAPPEN! HOW
MANY MOLECULES DOES THE DOOR WEIGH?
YOU NEED A COMPLETE REDESIGN!
> A similar molecule approaching the trapdoor
> from the left side would bounce back and not pass through to the right
> side. When the molecule on the right passed through the trapdoor, it
> would lose most of its kinetic energy to the trapdoor and exit at a
> low velocity. As a result, the trapdoor and the membrane would be
> heated and the molecule which passed though it would be cooled.
> The process would generate a local temperature difference that
> would quickly be equalized by any reasonable level of heat transfer.
“I did a thought experiment.”
Is not at all the same as:
“I thought I did an experiment.”
Although they are frequently confused!
> The first theoretical objection to this type of perpetual motion
> machine that the author has found in literature is that it cannot work
> because it violates the Second Law of Thermodynamics. This is hardly a
> valid objection since the arrangement is specifically designed to
> bypass the limitations of that law. The Second Law of Thermodynamics
> is a statistical law and it is not binding on nanomachinery since such
> mechanisms deal with molecules on an individual basis and the pores of
> the assumed diffusion membranes certainly qualify as nanomechanisms.
MY HEADACHE TELLS ME
THIS IS PURE WANK!
Who do I see to get
an exemption from the
laws of thermodynamics?
Wouldn’t atoms be a kind
of nanomechanism, but they
still obey newtonian
mechanics, don’t they?
If I didn’t have to
obey the law of
thermodynamics, I’m
sure I could turn a
profit! Just like
selling carbon credits!
There is no actual product:
it’s all just paperwork!
BUT YOU CAN STILL GET RICH!
> (The Second Law of Thermodynamics, or the Law of Entropy
> increase if you prefer, does apply to the membrane itself
> and to the gas in the chambers since they involve large
> numbers of randomly interacting particles.
I’M SORRY, BUT ENTROPHY WAS
CANCELLED IN 1994 BY STEVE RADO.
SEE: KP2009OCT13 ENTROPY, RIP
http://net-prophet.net/blog/?p=1254
WELCOME TO THE EVOLVING UNIVERSE!
> It does not apply to the pores of the diffusion mechanism. Each
> pore is an independently acting nanomechanism and, as such, is not
> bound by the Second Law of Thermodynamics (Entropy). The only other
> theoretical objection that the author has found was provided in
> another book by Dr. Feynmann in which he described a nanomechanism
> consisting of a riverboat type of paddle wheel mounted on a shaft
> inside a cylinder containing a fluid. The paddle wheel was bombarded
> by the random motion of the molecules of the fluid and caused the
> shaft undergo a random rotary oscillation. To convert this motion
> to a useful output, an EXTERNAL one-way ratchet was attached to the
> shaft. Dr. Feynmann then demonstrated that the device would not work
> because the motion of the ratchet pawl would generate enough heat so
> that the resultant thermal molecular motion of the ratchet and pawl
> would make the pawl bounce sufficiently to render the one way
> mechanism inoperative.
MAYBE NONE OF THESE DEVICES
HAVE BEEN BUILT BECAUSE
THEY CAN’T BE, AND WOULD
NOT WORK IF THEY WERE?
AND YET THE UNIVERSE,
INSTEAD OF FADING AWAY
INTO ENTROPIC TAPIOCA,
HAS ORGANIZED ITSELF
QUITE WONDERFULLY!
HOW DO WE EXPLAIN THAT?
> From the description provided, it is obvious that, while
> Dr. Feynmann is undoubtedly an excellent theoretical physicist,
Actually, I think he was a
mathematician, pretending
to be a physicist. He was
an astonishing man. I
remember watching films
of him back in the 1960s!
Even though he was wrong,
he was still inspirational!
> he is not as effective as a design engineer. Relocating
> the ratchet mechanism to the interior of the fluid chamber
> must cool it close to the temperature of the fluid and
> dampen its bounce. As a result, Dr. Feynmann’s objections
> would vanish.
Now that you’ve solved
all the design problems,
where can I buy it, and
how much does it cost?
I hope you got a patent,
because this will be worth
BIG BUCKS!
> When the model is modified, Dr. Feynmann probably would be forced to
> agree, that unless another objection could devised, the concept should
> represent a physically realizable device that would by-pass the Second
> Law of Thermodynamics. A theoretical demonstration that the mechanism
> suggested by the author cannot work requires a proof that the
> permeability of all possible diffusion membranes must be the same
> in both directions.
Pre-emptive hypothetical disproving
of objections yet to come strikes me
as an unsuitable foundation for
anything but unsubstantiated WANK.
> Deriving such a proof may be particularly difficult because
> the pores of the required membrane are allowed to extract energy
> from the molecules that pass though them.
WHY NOT JUST BUILD ONE?
WOULDN’T THAT BE EASIER?
IF IT CAN’T BE BUILT,
THEN ALL THE ARGUMENTS
ABOUT IT ARE JUST WANK!
WHICH MAY BE DISMISSED
WITHOUT EVEN COMMENTING!
> CONSIDERABLE EFFORT IS JUSTIFIED
> IN DEVELOPING SUCH A PROOF.
????
THE ONLY CONVINCING PROOF
AS A WORKING MACHINE!
“IF YOU DON’T BUILD IT,
THEY WON’T EVER COME!”
> IF THAT PROOF CANNOT FOUND, THE POSSIBILITY OF BUILDING A
> PERPETUAL MOTION MACHINE OF THE SECOND KIND IS NOT FOOLISH
I THINK THIS WHOLE LINE OF “INQUIRY” IS FOOLISH!
HYPOTHETICAL PROJECTIONS ABOUT POSSIBLE OBJECTIONS
THAT MIGHT BE MADE IN THE FUTURE ARE NOT SCIENCE!
WHAT YOU HAVE FAILED
TO ADDRESS IS THAT
“ENTROPY” IS APPARENTLY
COMPLETELY UNABLE TO KEEP
THE UNIVERSE FROM SELF-
ORGANIZING INTO A
BEWILDERING ARRAY OF
PLANETS, STARS, GALAXIES
AND SO FORTH.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE SKY,
IT’S QUITE REMARKABLE:
THERE IS NO LUKEWARM
GRAY TAPIOCA SOUP TO
BE SEEN AT ALL! THINGS
ARE DISTINCTLY DIFFERENT!
YOU ALREADY LIVE IN A
PERPETUAL MOTION MACHINE!
WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO BUILD ONE?
> AND AN ALL OUT EFFORT TO DEMONSTRATE IT IS JUSTIFIED. IF IT
> CAN BE BUILT, SOCIETY WOULD HAVE AN INEXHAUSTIBLE AND POLLUTION
> FREE SOURCE OF ENERGY THAT PROBABLY COULD BE SIZED FOR THE
> SMALLEST HOMES AND THE LARGEST FACTORIES.
You just want free energy.
Everything is FULL of energy.
I don’t know how to take it out,
but I suspect putting more
energy into things that can’t
absorb it with super-high
frequencies might melt down
that system releasing energy?
Knowing what that energy is,
how it got there, and how
it is stored might help
you find a simple solution.
[ ... SNIP .... ]
READ RADO!
KP2009DEC22 AETHRO-DYNAMICS RELEASED!
AFTER TOO MANY MONTHS
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IT’S FINALLY OUT!
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FOR THE LAST HUNDRED YEARS PHYSICS
HAS GONE *BACKWARDS* INTO IRRELEVANT,
UNINTELLIGIBLE MATHEMATICAL *WANK*!
[I WAS A PHYSICS MAJOR AT THE UNIVERSITY
OF CHICAGO IN THE 1960'S, UNTIL I REALIZED
THAT "PHYSICISTS" WERE JUST MATHEMATICIANS
*PRETENDING* TO KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT
PHYSICS, BUT HAD *NO* UNDERSTANDING!
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===========================
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===========================
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PHYSICS PHD’S KNOW
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THEY DON’T EVEN KNOW,
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WHAT WANKERS!
IT’S A WHOLE *NEW* GAME NOW!
YOU HAVE GOT TO *UNLEARN*
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A-D IS THE ABSOLUTELY THE
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[NOT BAD FOR A GUY WHO
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BUT TRAINED DILIGENTYLY AS
A MYSTERY-NOVEL DETECTIVE,
WITH HIS BROTHER LAZLO,
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FRONT, AND NEVER CAME BACK!]
A-K AND A-D ARE ALSO THE
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===================
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===================
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O
— )
\
KONCHOK PENDAY
EDITOR, A-D
NEWSGROUPS:
alt.ucp,alt.conspiracy,alt.sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
PERMALINK: http://net-prophet.net/?p=1716
